As we have shared, during the next five weeks there will be a series of informational meetings during which you will learn more about the process, i.e., voting procedures, union representation, and the union itself, the collective bargaining process, and why it is in your best interest as well as the Sun's to cast a ballot on June 7 and vote NO.The Sun is owned by the Los Angeles Newspaper Group, a division of Denver-based MediaNews Group.
Jun 13, 2011
Date set for San Bernardino Sun union election
Newsroom employees at the San Bernardino Sun will decide on July 7 whether to establish a union. The National Labor Relations Board has identified 17 employees as eligible to vote in the election. Senior Editor Kim Guimarin sent two memos (here and here) outlining the process and making clear that management does not want the newsroom to unionize. From the memo:
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I heard that after she wrote those memos Guimarin choked Captain Antilles and then used the Death Star to blow up Alderaan.
What an awful feeling to wake up in the morning and realize you work for the bad guys.
Buddy the Elf: "It's just like Santa's workshop! Except it smells like mushrooms... and everyone looks like they wanna hurt me...”
No, disrespect meant, but this is the same woman who has “Elf” as her favorite movie noted on “facebook”.
I leave it to the seventeen to make their choice. Good luck folks.
Well, is a no-brainer! Unions have proven to be such a big help with MNG policies....oh, wait....
" ... and why it is in your best interest as well as the Sun's to cast a ballot on June 7 and vote NO."
When the company management so baldly threatens you, it is absolutely in your best interest to unionize.
Does the Guimarin memo really say June 7 (not July 7)? No copy editors left?
Yes, 4:25, that was a cut and paste. And, yes, we have no copy editors at the Sun. No bananas today, either.
nice that the memo provides a phone number to report harassment. Sun reporters should call that number to complain about Sun management's upcoming required anti-union meetings and insinuating memos.
if nothing else, perhaps we can all agree that a union at the Sun will give employees an opportunity to piss off LANG's higher ups. No union is going to save the flawed business model, but at least you can get some shots in before the ship sinks.
yep, suicide is always the best solution.
6:09 PM: Cool, equate unionizing with committing suicide. Sounds like you've been tippling the MNG Kool-aid a bit too long.
6:09 Probably knows what they are talking about.
Unless you have walked a line or had to face an exec. editor in union talks one day and work for them the next..you don't know what the hell your talking about. If you think this is smart or scares anyone...your idiots.
Maybe the person at 3:58 PM would like to comment on why MNG is so scared shitless of unionizing in this dippy little corner of the world that they send suits in from LANG and BANG and have managers write ineptly veiled threats to their employees?
Okay, 8:21 PM. What are you so scared about? An "executive editor" making your life tough? Firing you? Writing you up? For what? Doing your job? If you are afraid of "an executive editor" so badly, you, my fine feathered friend, need a union. (Or maybe a different line of work?)
These "Guimarin memos" could not be more explicit. The paper's management does not want its employees to have fair representation as a collective bargaining unit. This is what collective bargaining means: "[A] process of negotiations between employers and the representatives of a unit of employees aimed at reaching agreements that regulate working conditions. Collective agreements usually set out wage scales, working hours, training, health and safety, overtime, grievance mechanisms and rights to participate in workplace or company affairs." So why is LANG and MNG so scared of collective bargaining? What is there to hide? Why the panic?
6:09 sounds like a company man. My sense is he's never fought for anything he believed in. He'd rather stay on his knees as LANG takes more and more from him.
Vote Yes if you can't take their bullshit anymore and want to say no before they pull your pants down.
Just a couple of things:
First two quarters of 2011, so far: Wages cut 5.5%, furloughs (15 days) and months of no vacation accrual. Thousands of dollars from already low wages and vanishing benefits deducted.
None of this discussed, instead distributed in memos and in perfunctory meeting announcements. No one asked for feedback. General attitude is that employees were "lucky to keep their jobs."
The only reason given: "Earnings not as expected." Question: Who set those expectations and were they realistic expectations in the first place? If you set your expectations unrealistically you will never achieve expected earnings. This is disingenuous, at best. Not worthy behavior of a news organization.
Just a couple of things:
First two quarters of 2011, so far: Wages cut 5.5%, furloughs (15 days) and months of no vacation accrual. Thousands of dollars from already low wages and vanishing benefits deducted.
None of this discussed, instead distributed in memos and in perfunctory meeting announcements. No one asked for feedback. General attitude is that employees were "lucky to keep their jobs."
The only reason given: "Earnings not as expected." Question: Who set those expectations and were they realistic expectations in the first place? If you set your expectations unrealistically you will never achieve expected earnings. This is disingenuous, at best. Not worthy behavior of a news organization.
Spot on 12:24 AM
I hear that the union has bigger things coming down the pipe. Huge
Makes the Sun deal the least of their worries.
Employees have lost the ability to reasonably control their day to day, month to month, year to year lives.
Are employees going to be able to take time off this year with their families. Could they get the time off and afford to travel to give their children reasonable experience for their educational and healthy recreational growth?
Do they earn enough to save, even a pittance, for their children's education or their own retirement?
Remember, most of the people who work at the newspaper are educated people, who have spent a lot of money and time on their educations in order to work in their chosen careers. These college educated professional journalists have dedicated themselves to their careers. Are they being taken seriously or does the company just treat them as though they merely have 'jobs."
When layoffs in the Eastern properties occurred, were employees given the option to leave with buyouts (as unionized papers in LANG did)? Were they given fair warning about pending layoffs so they could plan their lives with a semblance of organization and dignity? (The simple answer to that is : No.)
If you ask yourselves why do people feel the need for the protection of a union, you should read and reread the above. It's all very simple.
Employees need to hear from management good reasons why employees should not go the route of unionizing. Good reasons. Why should employees trust management to act in its employees best interest?
Instead what has been seen is that management is drawing a line in the sand. Instead of reaching across the aisle, employees will be treated to "educational" meetings about why the employees should vote "NO." (Emphasis is not mine. The capitalized "NO" appears several times in recent memos.)
These strangely manipulative attempts at re-educatiion will probably have the effect of galvanizing the need for the employees to unionize. So what could have been an opportunity for meaningful dialogue has been met with defensiveness and further polarization by management.
union will do nothing to prevent any of the bad things that have happened or will happen ask the pressmen. your pants have been down for at least four years due to poor ownership and a crap business model among a host of others. good organizations take care of employees, lang doesnt and isnt. a union is toothless but if you believe, leave your tooth under your pillow and keep looking for those easter eggs.
I don't post here often. I have posted here twice in the past five years. It's not that I don't have anything to say about LANG or the direction of MNG. It's because I'm afraid of retaliation. That fear is a real fear, not a made up one. The truth maybe that the employees will get fucked if they unionize. They will also get fucked if they don't unionize.
seems like a wonderful place to work. fear, retaliation, misfit management, eroding or non existing benefits, and no hope of their newspapers being in business down the road. the union will not fix these issues. but, if you choose to ride that pony, good luck.
The company is making enough money to buy the OC Register.
Did they give the employees that gave up furloughs and their %10 pay stock options in Freedom ?
Answer = Nope
9:58. Did you read those letters from the management? The best way is out. But what are people supposed to do until they do find decent work? Stay at your house?
Please post your home phone 9:58 or your address so I can find you on Google maps. I'll bring my sleeping bag. What's for breakfast?
From the second memo: "It includes the names and home addresses of the 17 employees who the guild is seeking to represent."
Forgive me if this is a dumb question as I've never been in a union, but if the vote goes through will the union only represent 17 out of the hundreds of people who work at the Sun? I understand they're the only ones allowed to vote but would they be the only ones represented if this all goes through?
There are only 17 employees eligible? Wow. I knew it was bad, but ... wow.
To me, those memos seemed to be extremely unprofessional, heavy-handed and borderline inflammatory ("... and if the evil union reps try to come to your house in the middle of the night, break in, and stab your family to death, the number to call is ..."). And tomorrow, we'll have a free screening of "Hoffa" on the loading dock.
And also insulting. Give the Lucky 17 the information they need, and let them make up their own minds. Don't blatantly tell them how to think and what to do, without any supporting information. (Isn't that what newspapers are supposed to do? Educate and inform?) If the benevolent dictators at LANG have a better plan, or specific reasons why they should vote no, explain them. Make the argument. Rise to the debate.
Or maybe that IS their argument. They don't have anything else. Just vote NO for the good of the company, so that we won't have anything else to worry about it.
Maybe unionizing isn't the best idea. Maybe it's a horrible idea. But if I got a memo like that from a company like that, I'd be the first in line to vote YES.
the best time to find a job is when you have one. no, dont quit...you have been there for a reason, stay until something better comes your way or you find it. the point is a union will not fix all the ills that are in that group. it will fix none. the track record of unions the past few years suck. you dont have to be employeed to have an opinion on unions and you dont have to agree with mine. i have seen newspaper unions lose battle after battle, people fired, etc who were union members. if yo feel good about it, great and good luck.
Thankfully we are all saved. The union is the ticket to prosperity, a voice as well as an economic revival Not to mention new ownership and an enlightened management group. Thank you, thank you, thank you. How much are my dues?
@ 11:28 AM- Yes true the union is not perfect but at least they battle.
@ 12:17 PM- Less than what the company has been taking from hard working employees to buy the OC Register, consolidate and then fire them.
It's like helping the hangman buy the rope
The date in the paragraph that was copied for the post was actually correct. Click on the first "here" link and you'll see it.
At least they battle? Come on now. Battle means winning every now and then. The union hasn't had a now and then for years. They couldn't get lucky in a house of ill repute with a pocketful of bills. I clearly understand the frustration of employees, they have been and will continue to be screwed. Please let me know the battles the union wins if elected. I will be waiting to hear all of the wonderful victories.
In all seriousness, I'd love for some of the anti-union people here to give an honest explanation as to why they believe a union vote to be a bad idea.
I don't think anyone believes the union will stand in the way of further cuts or pain to employees. That's not the point here.
But it certainly seems that the unionized newsrooms, especially in other parts of the company, have not been abused nearly as badly as the non-union newsrooms.
Why should employees at the Sun continue to tolerate being treated worse than employees at the Mercury News?
And besides the paltry union dues, what are they risking by standing together?
I've said before that I am agnostic about unions in newsrooms. That said, I have a question for the crowd: Given the consolidation LANG has accomplished in the last 10 years, turning nine separate newspapers into three groups of three, does organizing under a single masthead have the unintentional effect of dividing one newsroom spread over three buildings against itself?
So once unionized, what's stopping MNG from firing the 17 people and asking them to re-apply for their jobs at the Daily Bulletin and have to commute to their old jobs as new employees at a lesser wage, no benefits, etc.??? Dejavu with LBPT and Daily Breeze coming up?
"They couldn't get lucky in a house of ill repute with a pocketful of bills." 2:03 PM Clever, clever, clever!
The problem with that is that LANG is the whorehouse and it wants its whores to work for crack. What this union stuff is doing is showing us who the pimps are.
Maybe the whores will be a little less trusting and look out for themselves.
Everyone, read: June 14, 2011 5:51 PM
That is the sanest, most sober post on this thread.
Look, I understand you guys are upset about working conditions being tough and hating the way management treats you. But, try to find a way to deal with it. Because, the fact of the matter is, there are no jobs out there right now. Especially in San Bernardino/Riverside County where the unemployment rate is upwards of 13%, in California, 11.9%=2.1 million people unemployed. And I think you are better of being employed or underemployed, than unemployed! Take it from ME....HOLD ON TO YOUR JOB AS LONG AS YOU CANNNNNN!Don't do anything to draw anymore attention to yourselves or your job.
I think if you guys decide to unionize, it will be extremely risky. Unions as it is, are not popular right now in the United States, whether they be in the private sector or public sector. Fact is, companies are cutting back. The American Family is cutting back. I think the higher-ups will look at this, see who's involved and then take action. Please, do not do anything that will give them a reason to fire you from your job. Because right now, a job is coveted! Without one, you will be FUCKED! Cause there are NOOOOOOOOOO JOBSSSSSSSSS out there Right NOW!!! HEAR IT PEOPLE???? NO JOBS!!!! NONE! ZERO! ZILCH! Please, don't do anything that might bring unwanted attention on you and keeping your position.
Good luck and God Bless, regardless.
signed
3 years unemployed (and counting!)
you need a union to identify the pimps?
if you think a union will help good luck on voting it in.
i believe it will do nothing but add further grief to your plate.
the company is bankrupt, the business model as many others have written is toast, there isn't an ounce of inovation in the management ranks, and the finish line is a few years at best down the road for a number of newspapers.
to those of you who believe the union makes sense, good luck and i hope you are right.
Much like the democrats and republicans there are two diverse points of view. And, like congress it won't play out until the crisis becomes overwhelming with far greater consequences. For this group of newspapers to put their employees in this position is beyond shameful. I do not think the union will solve the employees issues, the record has been weak if at all the last several years. However, if you feel good about it great. My guess is that the LANG braintrust will find a way to get that yes vote to help their side and the employees will be up the creek even further.
Seniority & Severance
They want to fire the most expensive journalists in the group. And they have ! The ones with all the experience and sources are rewarded with a kick in the ass. They are just a fat number to them.
People will say that it's like trying to get rid of a lazy teacher in LAUSD, Most are hard working SOB'S.
The fact is the veteran journalist with children and college to pay for are a liability to them. There is no reward for loyalty in this company.
If they retaliate take notes and and have a paper trail. The Call a labor lawyer and milk LANG for some of that OCR money they stole from you.
P.S. a pizza and ice-cream is not a reward.
"... does organizing under a single masthead have the unintentional effect of dividing one newsroom spread over three buildings against itself?"
Gary, explain how it would do this? Don't you think that other papers would similarly invite union reps? What about union reps coming to San Gabriel, the central nervous system of six newspapers?
"you need a union to identify the pimps?"
I think it already has mad things much more clear.
Thank you for wishing us good luck all the time. Its so ominously encouraging. Good luck to yourself.
@9:40: Yes, union reps might go to the other papers. My question isn't meant to sound as if this is an insoluble problem. But there is a difference between the real and perceived structure of LANG. The papers act like they're separate, but really they are bureaus of a hub newsroom. If one bureau organizes, management could pit the union against the non-union. Blame one for sucking up resources from the other. Blame one for causing furloughs for the other, etc. Perhaps this is all speculation, but it's interesting speculation.
Frankly I could give a rats ass about the union, or lang. They deserve each other big time.
When you are in a sinking boat you better be able to swim, not wish you had taken lessons.
And, good luck.
11:57 Please feel free to take a long hike off of a short trail and, as always, good luck.
Gary, I think that's already happening.
Gary,
I've been in two unions (not in media), once during a strike, and certainly there were benefits. If the Sun does unionize, and does get some protections, I would imagine that would entice others to join rather than create animosity. I also think getting San Gab in would be crucial in that scenario.
But I don't think the hedge funds now in control of MediaNews care. They would close down the paper, regardless of employees, if they thought it would help the bottom line. I'm not sure if it's a good idea, but reporters there are in the trenches and know what's best. I wish them luck.
Hey there 12:17, are we getting a little miffed? Seems like a number of different posters are wishing good luck. Why take it the wrong way?
Nobody who has posted here so far is part of the Sun group trying to unionize.
Union or no union -- we're screwed either way. We all know it.
Nobody thinks this is going to be a cure-all kind of thing. And it might be our downfall. But we're going down anyway.
2:20, you win hands down for the most rational post here.
2:20. You are making an incorrect assumption about who has posted here and who hasn't.
@2:20. You write the truth. Union or no Union, we're all screwed.
Which leads to my point...why pay dues for the same result??
@2:20: I can tell you for certain that Sun people with a positive stake in the union have been posting on this thread.
Also, please don't be so naive as to think that the Sun management hasn't been making many of the anti-union and divisive posts you have read. The Sun management has a lot to lose if the Sun unionizes.
Whether the workers at the Sun want to go through with their efforts is a different story.
The good thing is the Sun management has had a vote of confidence and that vote of confidence is NO!
If a journalist falls in the Forrest does anybody care ?
When I hear the term Sun Management, it makes me laugh. Thank you.
Please explain to those of us who are a bit confused as to what Sun Management has to lose with a union. They are working for a crap organization. Virtually no hope for brighter days. Pay slashes and vacation elimination etc. No hope on delivering a great local product. Employees who will jump at the chance at any decent offer, not that I blame them. Poor leadership with no direction...looks pretty bleak to me. How can it get much worse?
The person who posted this:
"Please, do not do anything that will give them a reason to fire you from your job. Because right now, a job is coveted! Without one, you will be FUCKED! Cause there are NOOOOOOOOOO JOBSSSSSSSSS out there Right NOW!!! HEAR IT PEOPLE???? NO JOBS!!!! NONE! ZERO! ZILCH! Please, don't do anything that might bring unwanted attention on you and keeping your position.
Good luck and God Bless, regardless.
signed
3 years unemployed (and counting!)
June 15, 2011 1:08 AM"
Is most likely running SGVN! Little bald weasel.
Running it further into the ground.
If you have any question about whether or not you are included in the reference to "Sun Management" you are probably are too low on the totem pole. "Management" is an unfortunate, hazy phrase when it comes to newsrooms. City editors and ACEs seldom apply when it comes to policy and enforcement, but they usually get the flak.
so, let me see if i have this correct. you work for a snake, the snake bites you again and again, you still work for the snake. you keep holding out your hand. the poison has spread and even a blood transfusion wont save you. do you really believe the union will stop the death spiral or help you?
@June 17, 2011 12:04 AM
If a journalist falls in a forrest, nobody will care.
But.... if a journalist falls in a forest, other journalists will care.
Copy editors: An endangered species at MNG.
MNG is extinct, they just don't know it.
Thursday, July 7 is the scheduled union vote in San Bernardino. Pray that there is enough spirit left to vote for ourselves.
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